Hello. I assume that you do not have a log book as it has not been raced, yes? Thanks

Any chance in entertaining an offer for $30,000? Or possibly discussing a one year lease? Thanks!

To:#301
Re: More questions
Just realized after I sent the last reply that I don't have any photos of the cockpit in the gallery. I have since forwarded three cockpit photos to Exclusion. Once approved, they will be uploaded to the gallery. They will show the FIA seat, the helmet collar and my seat insert.

To:#301
Re: More questions
Answers to your latest questions:
1) No maintenance record came with the car when I bought it. I wasn't too concerned because the car looked almost brand new and the second owner knew the original owner and could confirm its usage. The car apparently was freshened up prior to the second owner taking possession. Judging from the items in the spare parts box and my inspection when I took over the car, it looks like it had a new Tilton clutch and pressure plate installed. He also had new brake rotors and pads installed. Since then, the second owner put on about two hours, and I put on under two hours. I do all the maintenance, and most of the fabrications on my race cars myself. Been competing in motorsport since the '70s, and owned formula cars since the '90s.
2) Engine and gearbox are both sealed.
3) I am not familiar with the F4 Championship rules. Having gone thru all the technical bulletins from Ligier, I noticed the following items have been revised or updated after my car was produced. They are:
- New wheels.
- One additional bleed line from rad to swirl pot.
- Addition of an anti-intrusion plate for the front bulkhead.
- Two additional metal support straps for the belly pan.
- Firmware update for the steering wheel display.
I don't know if any, or all, of these revisions are "must do" for the FIA Championship entries, or how much they cost. None of them are performance related, so none-FIA event organizers might not require them.
4) They are all basically the same car, except for the revisions I mentioned above.
5) According to the documents I got from HPD, it's a K20 engine. It's basically Honda's current Civic Type R motor with the turbo removed. F3 cars use the same motor with the turbo, but less boost to limit output power. In F4 trim, the engine is VERY under-stressed.
6) F4 uses a Sadev SL75LW box. It's sealed on the car currently. Internal parts are available and Ligier's F4 owners manual has a very comprehensive workshop manual, detailing rebuild procedures, complete with assembly drawings and parts lists and numbers. However, I believe for FIA sanctioned championship events, the box needs to be rebuild by authorized shop so proper seals can be put on. Don't know how much a typical rebuild would cost, or which shop is authorized. Ligier would know.
7) When I register with Ligier, all I did was called them and gave my name, email, VIN and address. They then emailed me a link and an access code. Same with HPD.
8) All FIA approved race cars require a seat which can be lifted out from the cockpit with the driver strapped in it. The F4 car has one of these FIA mandated seats, complete with color-coded webbings to secure the injured driver before lifting. The size of this seat is as follow:
- Shoulder spacing 19.5"
- Hip spacing 17-1/8'
- leg spacing 13"
Inside this FIA seat, I foamed my own custom removable insert. I am 5'-10" , 160 pounds. Second owner is shorter than me. Don't know the first owner's size. This F4 car is my 4th formula car. It's one of the largest cockpit I have ever seen. The inside dimension of the carbon tub is 24". My friend who is 6'-2", 220 pounds, sat in the FIA seat with no problem. The pedal box is adjustable fore/aft, and it's current 90mm short of its maximum (30mm per adjustment hole), it can also be shorten by 60 mm from its current location for shorter drivers.
9) There is a photo of the cockpit in the gallery. The light grey color is my seat insert.
10) The car comes with an FIA head support collar. It was removed in the photos. It's a carbon shell stuff with memory foam. Located with two dowel pins and two quarter turn fasteners. Ligier introduced a second head collar with a thinner rear section to provide even more head room for really tall drivers, if required.
11) The driver with the blue helmet in the photos was me. 5'-10"
12) I purchased a fuel pump out hose from Ligier to connect to the dry-break connector on the car. I also purchased a communication cable to access the data logger. The first owner kept those because he purchased a F3 car to replace his F4. I didn't find any problem lifting the car with a regular floor jack. The car has a raised nose, and the rear jacking point (under the rear carbon crush structure) is high off the ground. If the driver wants a radio system put in, the main wiring harness already have connectors in place for power and antenna. The engine has an on-board starter.

If you have additional questions, feel free to ask. Thank you for your interest in the car.

1. Who has maintained the car?  Are maintenance records available?
2. Is the engine still sealed and legal for the F4 series?  If not, what is needed to make it compliant and what is the cost?
3. Is the rest of the car compliant with F4 series rules?  If not, what is needed to bring it into compliance and the cost?  I’m aware the fire bottle is out of date and the harness will soon be out of date.
4. What differences are there between the 2017 car on offer and a current car?
5. What specific engine is in the car?  I’m aware it’s a 2L Civic motor.  I think in street guise, it is turbocharged but the turbo and associated hardware are removed for F4 duty.
6. Which Sadev sequential gearbox is in the F4?  Is the gearbox sealed?  Regardless whether sealed or not, are internal transmission parts available for it?  The parts sheet you previously provided lists only the complete transmission and a few minor ancillary parts.
7. In prior answers to my emailed questions, the owner stated that the owner of this F4 must register as the owner on the Ligier website before access is allowed.  Does that registration involve anything more than providing a name, email and password?  If so, what must be provided?
8. Is there a seat in the car?  If so, is it a custom seat?  For what height and weight person was the seat fitted?  If the seat is not custom, approximately what height/weight person fits in the seat?  What are the approximate heights and weights of current and previous owners?
9. Please furnish pictures of the cockpit interior.
10. Does the car have the head collar kit?  A head collar is not shown in the static pictures of the car but looks to be present in the on track pictures.
11. How tall is the driver shown in the on-track pictures in the listing?
12. Is F4 specific trackside support/pit equipment needed?  For example, jacking equipment or starter.

To:#301
Re: Your questions
Answers to your questions:
1) Ligier will sell parts to private owners who are not competing in F4. There are basically four types of parts on this car. First, there are third party supplied parts, like brake calipers, brake master cylinders, battery, gearbox ....Ligier lists who those suppliers are in the owner's manual and those parts are available from the original manufacturers or from Ligier. Second, there are fabricated parts like suspension arms, push rods, wings, sway bars.... Those can be fabricated, if you have the ability to do them or know shops that have experience in race car fabrication. Third, the Ligier specific parts like suspension uprights, wheel teethers, steering wheel with the multi-function display, the locked ECU from GEMS, body panels.... They are only available from Ligier. Fourth, all the generic parts like rod ends, dry-break couplers, AN fasteners.... They are available everywhere. Good thing is that Ligier keeps inventory on every single part on the car at their warehouse, down to the last single bolt, nut and washer. And their pricing is very reasonable in my opinion.

2) I don't have a hard copy of the parts list, but Ligier gave me an access code to their technical website. I log on to find parts and prices there. Then I send an email to their parts department to order them. Their parts guy usually replies my emails within an hour or two (except the days before a major F3 and F4 race weekend). They are very efficient.

3) There is a data system on the car. However, the last two owners are both older gentlemen track day drivers who are computer illiterate. The system was never set up when they owned the car. I am no better in that regard, so I enlisted a young friend who was on a local Formula SAE team to help out. Found out you need to go to GEMS's website to download some program to enable the data logger. It's working now and I had a one hour test day on it (without my young engineer friend there). It's logging engine hours, other engine parameters, g-forces, but not distance. Will need my friend to look at the programming again. Based on conversation I had with previous owners, the car has a total of approximately 25 hours on it.

4) No idea how much an engine or transmission rebuild will cost, or their intervals. Might need to ask Sadev and HPD.

5) The engine is a stock engine from the Civic, with the turbo removed. I talked to HPD, their engineer confirmed that the engine is all stock. They worked with GEMS in England to develop the ECU to work without the turbo, and the gearbox's auto-blip feature. HPD contracted Mountune to administrate their engine program. They basically sealed all the engines, both new and rebuilt, to make them F4 legal.

6) Muffler only had one test day on it. Meter recorded 88 db, but it was recorded on the inside pit wall rather than the outside pit wall, because event organizer would not let my crew cross the pit lane. According to multiple reports, the car is substantially quieter than most of the cars there. Will need to test again at another track where measurements can be taken closer to traffic.

7) I haven't seen a "complete" maintenance schedule anywhere. Ligier has an inspection and component life schedule in their owner's manual but it's not very comprehensive.

Hope this answers your questions.

To:#288
Re: Tax on Canadian purchaser
Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. I didn't know there was a message from you. There is no tax on the purchase since the car is not owned by a business or a company.

Car is in excellent shape and needs nothing to be driven in track day events. For sanctioned race events, it will need a new fire extinguisher (or have the expired one in the car rebuild and re-certified). The seat belts are expiring at the end of this year (FIA belts are good for 5 years). It will also need a transponder for timing (some sanctioning bodies rent them at race events). 

The engine is a stock Honda Civic engine. Mountune will rebuild and install all the seals on the engine to make it legal for F4 races. If you are not participating in race events where sealed engines are required, any shops familiar with this engine can refresh it. 

Once you become a registered car owner with Ligier, they will provide a password to their exclusive website. Inside, you will find a comprehensive parts catalogue with assembly drawings and all parts numbers and a price list. Ligier carries all chassis parts and F4 specific engine parts. Any Honda OE parts on the engine are available from any Honda dealership. HPD (Honda Performance Department) also has F4 specific parts that they developed for this engine. Ligier also provides technical bulletins, as they become available, on all recalls, revisions, updated or improved parts. 

I can tow it across the border to around Seattle, Washington and Exclusive can probably recommend a U.S. company to deliver the car to you. Alternatively, I could potentially tow it to you for a fee to cover my costs. 

I have some questions about the car. I am a racer but am not familiar with F4 generally or the Ligier F4 specifically. Any information is appreciated:

1) Does Ligier sell parts to private owners who are not Championship participants? Are there parts suppliers other than Ligier?

2) Do you have a parts list with prices?

3) The data systems on these cars have odometers. What is this car's mileage?

4) What is the cost of an engine rebuild? Cost of transmission rebuild? Engine/trans rebuild intervals?

5) What Honda engine is in the car? It's the spec series engine, of course, but is it a street motor or a special HPD build?

6) With the sound reducing muffler, what db does the car produce?

7) Does Ligier have a printed or on-line maintenance schedule?

Good afternoon,
Thanks for the pricing. Also, just wanted to insure that this sale will not have any taxes on top of the sale price if purchased from a Canadian?

Re: shipping to Montreal
TFX just quoted $3,500 (Canadian) door to door. There is a 9.6% fuel surcharge on top of that price. This surcharge changes weekly depending on fuel price, and will be quoted once the pick up date is confirmed. GST is extra.

#288
Re: shipping to Montreal
I will need to check with a shipper (probably TFX) and get a quote from them. Will get back to you once I hear from them. Thanks for your interest.

Exclusive can reach out to our partner transport operators as well but it would be more cost effective if the car was moved to Washington state first and then picked up from WA and moved to MI.

What would be the shipping costs for the entire setup to Montreal, Canada? Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Contacted a Canadian shipper. They need your city in Michigan before they can provide a quote. Please provide that information. Thanks.

I can certainly bring the car back into Washington state so that it can be transported to Michigan from there. As to cost and time, I think Exclusive (call their office and talk to Brent) might be the best party to recommend which companies are best to provide a price quotation. I do know two Canadian companies that move vehicles between Canada and the U .S.. I can call them next week to get an indication how much it will cost to ship from Canada. However, that will require a Canadian broker to do export documents, which usually costs around $200 Canadian typically. I would think shipping it out of Washington would be the simplest and cheaper way to do it.

Hi,
Since this is located in BC are you able to assist getting back to the the States? If yes best estimates on length of time and cost to export to the state of Michigan.
Thanks so much